Answering-Ansar’s lies upon Ibn Katheer

Answering-Ansar quoted three ahadith and claimed that Ibn Katheer has no objection to these ahadith. InshaAllah we will unveil the huge liar website of Shiites once again.

Answering-Ansar says

4th Hadeeth

“Hadhrath Ali [as] said that the verse “Inna ma walliyo kumullah” was revealed when I gave my ring to a beggar whilst I was in ruku.

Ibn Katheer has no objections to this Hadeeth.

5th Hadeeth

Ibn Abi Hatim – Rabae bin Suliman – Ayyub bin Sawaid – Utbah ibn Abi Hakim (ra) that they (those who believe, who establish salah and give zakah, and they bow down) are the Believers and ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib.

Ibn Katheer did not object to this Hadeeth. The objection that is raised if from Ansar.org namely Utbah bin Abi Hakim did not see any Sahabi thus this report should be rejected, we will refute his false qiyas in the next chapter under the topic ‘Can the lack of direct witness testimony discredit a narration among Ahle Sunnah?’ At this stage readers should know that Ibn Katheer did not have any concerns with this narration.

6th Hadeeth

Abu Saeed al-Ashaj narrated from Al-Fadhel bin Dukain from Musa bin Qais al-Hadhrami from Salamah bin Kuhayl who said: ‘Ali paid his ring as charity while he in bowing position, then it was revealed {Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poor due, and bow down (in prayer).}

Ibn Katheer has quoted this tradition from ‘Tafseer Ibn Abi Hatim’ Volume 4 page 1162 and Ibn Katheer offered no objection to this tradition. Despite this Ansar.Org advanced the same excuse i.e. lack of contact of Salamah Ibn Kuhayl with the Sahaba. We will inshallah address this excuse in the next chapter but first for the benefit of our readers, let us cite the opinions of Sunni Imams about the narrators in this chain which will prove that all the narrators are authentic:

Abu Saeed al-Ashaj: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdeeb, v1, p497). Al-Dahabi said: ‘Sheikh ul-Islam’ (Tazkirat al-Hufaz, v2 p501). Ibn Abi Hatim said: ‘Thiqah Seduq’ (Al-Jarh wa al-Tadil, v5, p73). Imam Ibn Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v8 p365). Imam Al-Nesai said: ‘Seduq’. Al-Shatwey said: ‘I never saw someone more preserved than him’. Imam Yahya ibn Mueen said: ‘Nothing bad about him’. Al-Khalili said: ‘Thiqah’. Muslima bin Qasim said: ‘Thiqah’. Mura said: ‘He is the imam of his time’. (Tahdeeb al-Tahdeeb, v5 p208).

Al-Fadhel bin Dukain: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah Thabt’ (Taqrib al-Tahdeeb, v2 p11). Al-Dahabi said: ‘Haifz Thabt’ (Tazkirat al-Hufaz, v1 p372). Ibn Abi Hatim said: ‘Thiqah’ (Al-Jarh wa al-Tadil, v7 p61). Imam Ibn Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v7, p319). Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: ‘Thiqah’ Abu Za’ara said: ‘I never saw a narrator more truthful than Abi Naeem’. Al-Ejli said: ‘Thiqah Thabt’ (Tahdeeb al-Kamal, v23 p209). Ibn Saad said: ‘Thiqah’. Imam Al-Nesai said: ‘Thiqah’. Al-Khatib said: ‘Thiqah’ (Tahdeeb al-Tahdeeb, v8 p248).

Musa bin Qais al-Hadhrami: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Seduq’ (Taqrib al-Tahdeeb, v2 p228). Al-Dahabi said: ‘Thiqah’ (Al-kashef, v2 p308). Ibn Abi Hatim said: ‘Nothing bad about him’ (Al-Jarh wa al-Tadil, v8 p157). Imam Ibn Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v7, p455). Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: ‘I only know good things about him’. Imam Yahya ibn Mueen said: ‘Thiqah’ (Tahdeeb al-Kamal, v29, p134). Ibn Numair said: ‘Thiqah’ Abu Naeem said: ‘He is sound’ (Tahdeeb al-Tahdeeb, v10 p327).

Salamah bin Kahayl: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdeeb, v1 p378). Al-Dahabi said: ‘Thiqah’ (Al-kashef, v1 p454). Ibn Abi Hatim said: ‘Thiqah’ (Al-Jarh wa al-Tadil, v4 p170). Imam Ibn Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v4 p317). Imam Yahya ibn Mueen said: ‘Thiqah’. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: ‘Mutqan’. Imam Al-Ejli said: ‘Thiqah’. Muhammad bin Saad said: ‘Thiqah’. Abu Za’ara said: ‘Thiqah’. Yaqoub bin Shayba said: ‘Thiqah’. Imam Al-Nesai said: ‘Thiqah Thabt’ (Tahdeeb al-Kamal, v11 p316).

7th Hadeeth

Ibn Jarir – Harith – Abdul Aziz – Ghalib ibn ‘Ubaydillah – Hadhrath Mujahid (ra), was asked concerning the verse “Inna ma walliyo kumullah”, he said this verse was revealed when Hadhrath Ali [as] gave his ring to a beggar whilst in ruku.

Ibn Katheer raises no objection to this Hadeeth either. Yet again the objection comes from the Ansar.Org author who asserts that Ghalib ibn ‘Ubaydillah is unreliable.

8th Hadeeth

Then he (Ibn Mardaweh) narrate it from Maymon bin Mehran from Ibn Abbas about the verse {Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger}that it was revealed for the believers and Ali bin Abi Talib.

Ibn Katheer has no objection regarding the above narration.

9th Hadeeth

There is a narration which Ibn Katheer has quoted from Tafseer Tabari that has also been cited by Ansar.org:

Hannad [ibn Sari]— ‘Abdah [ibn Sulayman]— ‘Abd al-Malik [ibn Abi Sulayman]— Abu Ja’far [i.e. Imam Muhammad al-Baqir]:
‘Abd al-Malik says: I asked Abu Ja’far about the verse, “Your wali is only Allah, His Messenger and those who believe, who establish salah and give zakah, and they bow down.” We asked: “Who is meant by those who believe?” He said: “Those who believe.” We said: “A report reached us that that this verse was revealed in connection with ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib.” He said: “Ali is one of those who believe.”

Ibn Katheer has no objection to this narration.

10th Hadeeth

Ibn Katheer has recorded another narration from ‘Tafseer al-Tabari’ Volume 6 page 389 and raised no objection to the chain.

Muhammad bin al-Hussain – Ahmad bin Mufadhal – Asbaat – Al-Sedi who said: Then he told them whom they take as guardian, he said {Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer) } they are the believers, but it was Ali bin Abi Talib when a man asked him while he was bowing in the mosque, he gave him his ring.

Let us check the opinion of Sunni scholars about the narrators of this chain.

Muhammad bin al-Hussain: Al-Dahabi said: ‘Hafiz mutqan’ while Al-Darqutni said: ‘Thiqah’ (Siyar alam al-Nubala, v13 p243). Imam Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v9 p152). Al-Baani also deemed him authentic (Erwa al-Ghalil, v1 p275).

Ahmad bin al-Mufadhal: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Seduq’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p46). Al-Dahabi said: ‘Seduq’ (Al-kashef, v1 p203). Imam Ibn Abi Hatim said: ‘Seduq’ (Al-Jarh wa al-Tadil, v2 p77). Imam Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v8, p28). Al-Baani corrected the chain which contains Ahmad bin al-Mufadhal (Sahih Abu Dawoud, v2 p510 H2334 & Silsila Sahiha, v4 p300 H1723). Ibn Ashkab said: ‘Ibn Abi Shayba praised him’ (Tahdeeb al-Tahdeeb, v1 p70).

Asbaat bin Nasr: He is one of the narrators of Sahih Muslim. Ibn Hajar said: ‘Seduq’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p76). Imam Yahya ibn Mueen said: ‘Thiqah’ (Tarikh ibn Mueen, v1 p196). Imam Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v6, p85). Some of the critisim made against him didn’t hinder the Imam of Salafies Nasiruddin Al-Baani from accepting his hadith and he also said that according to Bukhari, he is ‘Seduq’ (Silsila Sahiha, v2 p474 H900). Musa bin Harun said: ‘Nothing bad about him’ (Tahdeeb al-Tahdeeb, v1 p186).

Ismaeel bin Abdulrahman al-Sedi (d. 127 H): He is one of the narrators of Sahih Muslim. Ibn Hajar said: ‘seduq’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p97). Al-Dahabi said: ‘Hasan al-hadith’ (Al-kashef, v1 p247). Al-Ejli said: ‘Thiqah’ (Marifat al-Thiqat, v1 p227). Ibn Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v4 p21). Beloved Imam of Salafies/Wahabies Nasiruddin Al-Baani stated: ‘He is thiqah’ (Silsila Sahiha, v1 p310 H311). Imam ibn Mueen said: ‘Nothing bad about him, I only know good about him’. Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: ‘Thiqah’ Imam Al-Nesai said: ‘Nothing bad about him’. Ibn Uday said: ‘Seduq’ (Tahdeeb al-Kamal, v3 p137). Al-Saji said: ‘Seduq’ (Tahdeeb al-Tahdeeb, v1 p274).

Summarizing the narrations of Ibn Katheer

Ibn Katheer has an issue with three narrations grading them as weak not a further six he also cites (although we have provided our stance on the criticism made by Nawasib regarding the 2nd Hadeeth). We don’t have a balance, there are more reliable Hadeeth than the weak ones, 3 weak and 6 reliable total = 9, with a bit of mathematical skill’s one can work out that 6/9 x 100= 60% reliability and the other way 3/9 X 100=30% weak. And if we go a step further to include the weak chains as well, the outcome will be the fact that the verse was revealed for Ali bin Abi Talib [as].

Now lets see what Ibn Katheer says after mentioning these ahadith

قال الطبراني ثنا عبدالرحمن بن مسلم الرازي ثنا محمد بن يحيى عن ضريس العبدي ثنا عيسى بن عبدالله بن عبيدالله بن عمر بن علي بن ابي طالب حدثني ابي عن ابيه عن جده عن علي قال نزلت هذه الآية على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم انما وليكم الله ورسوله والذين آمنوا الذين يقيمون الصلاة ويؤتون الزكاة وهو راكعون فخرج رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فدخل المسجد والناس يصلون بين راكع وقائم واذا سائل فقال يا سائل هل اعطاك احد شيئا فقال لا الا هاذاك الراكع لعلي اعطاني خاتمه وقال الحافظ ابن عساكر أنا خالى المعالي القاضى أنا أبو الحسن الخلعي أنا ابو العباس احمد بن محمد الشاهد ثنا ابو الفضل محمد بن عبدالرحمن ابن عبدالله بن الحارث الرملي ثنا القاضى جملة بن محمد ثنا ابو سعيد الاشج ثنا ابو نعيم الاحول عن موسى بن قيس عن سلمة قال تصدق على بخاتمه وهو راكع فنزلت انما وليكم الله ورسوله والذين آمنوا الذين يقيمون الصلاة ويؤتون الزكاة وهم راكعون وهذا لا يصح بوجه من الوجوه لضعف اسانيده ولم ينزل في علي شىء من القرآن بخصوصيته

This is not correct from any way, because of the weakness of its asnad, and nothing is revealed in Quran about Ali specifically.

Al bidaya wa al nihaya 7/357

You can see the clear lie upon Ibn Katheer very clearly.

4th Hadeeth

“Hadhrath Ali [as] said that the verse “Inna ma walliyo kumullah” was revealed when I gave my ring to a beggar whilst I was in ruku.

Ibn Katheer has no objections to this Hadeeth.

5th Hadeeth

Ibn Abi Hatim – Rabae bin Suliman – Ayyub bin Sawaid – Utbah ibn Abi Hakim (ra) that they (those who believe, who establish salah and give zakah, and they bow down) are the Believers and ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib.

Ibn Katheer did not object to this Hadeeth. The objection that is raised if from Ansar.org namely Utbah bin Abi Hakim did not see any Sahabi thus this report should be rejected, we will refute his false qiyas in the next chapter under the topic ‘Can the lack of direct witness testimony discredit a narration among Ahle Sunnah?’ At this stage readers should know that Ibn Katheer did not have any concerns with this narration.

6th Hadeeth

Abu Saeed al-Ashaj narrated from Al-Fadhel bin Dukain from Musa bin Qais al-Hadhrami from Salamah bin Kuhayl who said: ‘Ali paid his ring as charity while he in bowing position, then it was revealed {Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poor due, and bow down (in prayer).}

Ibn Katheer has quoted this tradition from ‘Tafseer Ibn Abi Hatim’ Volume 4 page 1162 and Ibn Katheer offered no objection to this tradition. Despite this Ansar.Org advanced the same excuse i.e. lack of contact of Salamah Ibn Kuhayl with the Sahaba. We will inshallah address this excuse in the next chapter but first for the benefit of our readers, let us cite the opinions of Sunni Imams about the narrators in this chain which will prove that all the narrators are authentic:

Abu Saeed al-Ashaj: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdeeb, v1, p497). Al-Dahabi said: ‘Sheikh ul-Islam’ (Tazkirat al-Hufaz, v2 p501). Ibn Abi Hatim said: ‘Thiqah Seduq’ (Al-Jarh wa al-Tadil, v5, p73). Imam Ibn Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v8 p365). Imam Al-Nesai said: ‘Seduq’. Al-Shatwey said: ‘I never saw someone more preserved than him’. Imam Yahya ibn Mueen said: ‘Nothing bad about him’. Al-Khalili said: ‘Thiqah’. Muslima bin Qasim said: ‘Thiqah’. Mura said: ‘He is the imam of his time’. (Tahdeeb al-Tahdeeb, v5 p208).

Al-Fadhel bin Dukain: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah Thabt’ (Taqrib al-Tahdeeb, v2 p11). Al-Dahabi said: ‘Haifz Thabt’ (Tazkirat al-Hufaz, v1 p372). Ibn Abi Hatim said: ‘Thiqah’ (Al-Jarh wa al-Tadil, v7 p61). Imam Ibn Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v7, p319). Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: ‘Thiqah’ Abu Za’ara said: ‘I never saw a narrator more truthful than Abi Naeem’. Al-Ejli said: ‘Thiqah Thabt’ (Tahdeeb al-Kamal, v23 p209). Ibn Saad said: ‘Thiqah’. Imam Al-Nesai said: ‘Thiqah’. Al-Khatib said: ‘Thiqah’ (Tahdeeb al-Tahdeeb, v8 p248).

Musa bin Qais al-Hadhrami: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Seduq’ (Taqrib al-Tahdeeb, v2 p228). Al-Dahabi said: ‘Thiqah’ (Al-kashef, v2 p308). Ibn Abi Hatim said: ‘Nothing bad about him’ (Al-Jarh wa al-Tadil, v8 p157). Imam Ibn Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v7, p455). Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: ‘I only know good things about him’. Imam Yahya ibn Mueen said: ‘Thiqah’ (Tahdeeb al-Kamal, v29, p134). Ibn Numair said: ‘Thiqah’ Abu Naeem said: ‘He is sound’ (Tahdeeb al-Tahdeeb, v10 p327).

Salamah bin Kahayl: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdeeb, v1 p378). Al-Dahabi said: ‘Thiqah’ (Al-kashef, v1 p454). Ibn Abi Hatim said: ‘Thiqah’ (Al-Jarh wa al-Tadil, v4 p170). Imam Ibn Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v4 p317). Imam Yahya ibn Mueen said: ‘Thiqah’. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: ‘Mutqan’. Imam Al-Ejli said: ‘Thiqah’. Muhammad bin Saad said: ‘Thiqah’. Abu Za’ara said: ‘Thiqah’. Yaqoub bin Shayba said: ‘Thiqah’. Imam Al-Nesai said: ‘Thiqah Thabt’ (Tahdeeb al-Kamal, v11 p316).

7th Hadeeth

Ibn Jarir – Harith – Abdul Aziz – Ghalib ibn ‘Ubaydillah – Hadhrath Mujahid (ra), was asked concerning the verse “Inna ma walliyo kumullah”, he said this verse was revealed when Hadhrath Ali [as] gave his ring to a beggar whilst in ruku.

Ibn Katheer raises no objection to this Hadeeth either. Yet again the objection comes from the Ansar.Org author who asserts that Ghalib ibn ‘Ubaydillah is unreliable.

8th Hadeeth

Then he (Ibn Mardaweh) narrate it from Maymon bin Mehran from Ibn Abbas about the verse {Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger}that it was revealed for the believers and Ali bin Abi Talib.

Ibn Katheer has no objection regarding the above narration.

9th Hadeeth

There is a narration which Ibn Katheer has quoted from Tafseer Tabari that has also been cited by Ansar.org:

Hannad [ibn Sari]— ‘Abdah [ibn Sulayman]— ‘Abd al-Malik [ibn Abi Sulayman]— Abu Ja’far [i.e. Imam Muhammad al-Baqir]:
‘Abd al-Malik says: I asked Abu Ja’far about the verse, “Your wali is only Allah, His Messenger and those who believe, who establish salah and give zakah, and they bow down.” We asked: “Who is meant by those who believe?” He said: “Those who believe.” We said: “A report reached us that that this verse was revealed in connection with ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib.” He said: “Ali is one of those who believe.”

Ibn Katheer has no objection to this narration.

10th Hadeeth

Ibn Katheer has recorded another narration from ‘Tafseer al-Tabari’ Volume 6 page 389 and raised no objection to the chain.

Muhammad bin al-Hussain – Ahmad bin Mufadhal – Asbaat – Al-Sedi who said: Then he told them whom they take as guardian, he said {Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer) } they are the believers, but it was Ali bin Abi Talib when a man asked him while he was bowing in the mosque, he gave him his ring.

Let us check the opinion of Sunni scholars about the narrators of this chain.

Muhammad bin al-Hussain: Al-Dahabi said: ‘Hafiz mutqan’ while Al-Darqutni said: ‘Thiqah’ (Siyar alam al-Nubala, v13 p243). Imam Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v9 p152). Al-Baani also deemed him authentic (Erwa al-Ghalil, v1 p275).

Ahmad bin al-Mufadhal: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Seduq’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p46). Al-Dahabi said: ‘Seduq’ (Al-kashef, v1 p203). Imam Ibn Abi Hatim said: ‘Seduq’ (Al-Jarh wa al-Tadil, v2 p77). Imam Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v8, p28). Al-Baani corrected the chain which contains Ahmad bin al-Mufadhal (Sahih Abu Dawoud, v2 p510 H2334 & Silsila Sahiha, v4 p300 H1723). Ibn Ashkab said: ‘Ibn Abi Shayba praised him’ (Tahdeeb al-Tahdeeb, v1 p70).

Asbaat bin Nasr: He is one of the narrators of Sahih Muslim. Ibn Hajar said: ‘Seduq’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p76). Imam Yahya ibn Mueen said: ‘Thiqah’ (Tarikh ibn Mueen, v1 p196). Imam Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v6, p85). Some of the critisim made against him didn’t hinder the Imam of Salafies Nasiruddin Al-Baani from accepting his hadith and he also said that according to Bukhari, he is ‘Seduq’ (Silsila Sahiha, v2 p474 H900). Musa bin Harun said: ‘Nothing bad about him’ (Tahdeeb al-Tahdeeb, v1 p186).

Ismaeel bin Abdulrahman al-Sedi (d. 127 H): He is one of the narrators of Sahih Muslim. Ibn Hajar said: ‘seduq’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p97). Al-Dahabi said: ‘Hasan al-hadith’ (Al-kashef, v1 p247). Al-Ejli said: ‘Thiqah’ (Marifat al-Thiqat, v1 p227). Ibn Haban included him in his book of authentic narrators (al-Thuqat, v4 p21). Beloved Imam of Salafies/Wahabies Nasiruddin Al-Baani stated: ‘He is thiqah’ (Silsila Sahiha, v1 p310 H311). Imam ibn Mueen said: ‘Nothing bad about him, I only know good about him’. Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: ‘Thiqah’ Imam Al-Nesai said: ‘Nothing bad about him’. Ibn Uday said: ‘Seduq’ (Tahdeeb al-Kamal, v3 p137). Al-Saji said: ‘Seduq’ (Tahdeeb al-Tahdeeb, v1 p274).

Summarizing the narrations of Ibn Katheer

Ibn Katheer has an issue with three narrations grading them as weak not a further six he also cites (although we have provided our stance on the criticism made by Nawasib regarding the 2nd Hadeeth). We don’t have a balance, there are more reliable Hadeeth than the weak ones, 3 weak and 6 reliable total = 9, with a bit of mathematical skill’s one can work out that 6/9 x 100= 60% reliability and the other way 3/9 X 100=30% weak. And if we go a step further to include the weak chains as well, the outcome will be the fact that the verse was revealed for Ali bin Abi Talib [as].

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